DNT for under $50 scams

Since being promoted I've dealt with quite a few petty scam reports (between $5 and $50) and I feel like a lot of our newer user base has no idea what DNT is.
If you're unaware what DNT is, you can find the post here: Understanding the DNT (Do Not Trade) rank

My suggestion, instead of banning users who scam under $50, we issue a DNT to them and explain them through the process of getting it removed and giving them incentive to pay back their victim.
I understand that there will be some issues, such as people will try and evade the DNT, but this is also to make the forum look more inviting instead of having "BANNED" plastered everywhere.

 

no support, their intentions are clear and they would've probably scammed more if they had the chance to

(they'll probably just vade the DnT anyways)

 

I sort of support. If someone is going to evade the DNT they would just ban evade anyway, the difference being is that the "newcomer" account they will use won't have the DNT.

Even if it only works in 1% of cases, that's 1% of victims receiving refunds.

 

Exactly, regardless of a ban or DNT they will evade, but even if it's just a 1% chance people will be paid back that's still 1% of the userbase walking away happy with what was implanted. Also a huge point to be made the forums as a whole will look cleaner and more appealing to newer eyes. We want to move Sythe.org forward, we want to be inviting towards newer people, we don't want them to go into a thread and just see "BANNED BANNED BANNED" everywhere.

 

imho if i was a new user and i saw banned banned banned everywhere i would think i was entering a community where i knew i had to be vigilant and that people got punished for wrong-doings. if you are just suggesting this to make it look cleaner then i think you're giving new users the wrong impression that there isn't so much scamming filth within the rs/online community

 

I'd say perhaps auto DNT for users who scammed that amount x amount of time ago and come back trying to get unbanned if they are unsuccessful in pardoning provided they have repaid/shown intent to and have not committed additional malicious offenses.

I do not support sending scammers directly into DNT so that they can continue being part of the community when they've literally just scammed. Richard himself said DNT isn't a punishment and said that the bans are intended to be punishment until they are placed into DNT. What this would say is essentially there is no real punishment for scamming as long as it's below a certain amount and I can't possibly support that. Not to mention as said above it's not like they scammed $50- because it's all they wanted, they scammed $50- because it's all they could get their hands on. They're just as toxic as someone who scams $51+.

As for concerns regarding new users seeing *BANNED* *BANNED* *BANNED* everywhere it also sends the message that scamming will not be tolerated and on a market forum i'm relatively sure that's a message we want to be sending. It's been mentioned time and again that DNT more or less looks like a self requested rank - there's even been people asking if they could request it and people saying they thought it was a requested rank until reading what it truly is intended to be. Instead of *BANNED* new users are going to see people who've scammed someone yesterday still posting around like nothing happened.

 

I totally understand what you're saying, my only thing is that most of the users from what I see come back to ban evade anyway, which makes a joke of the ban system. I understand that this is unavoidable but at least this way maybe even a few people may get their money back.

I think this is one of those situations that will never be fixed, toxic assholes will always seek out vulnerable people to scam.

 

I am not arguing that people aren't always going to scam but if we send out the message that you can scam below a certain amount and see no punishment for it then it's only going to be more enticing to scam. Truth be told in the time i've been here i've seen countless vaders fuck off after x amount of bans and never return. Arguing that they may scam on another vader isn't relevant because if they want to make a new account while under DNT and scam they're going to do that as well. While evading may make bans ineffective, instantly giving scammers a DNT rank with no punishment makes the entire market platform and the concept of punishing scammers at all ineffective. If Richard wants to decide on how long someone is punished depending on what they've done then so be it, but deciding to take a group of people and not punishing them at all because the amount they got their greedy faggot hands on was below $50 is ridiculous, there shouldn't be any case where they see absolutely zero punishment.

 

Totally agree, and like you said earlier he did say the DNT isn't designed as a punishment, but more of a repent. Difficult situation but now I really think about it, using the DNT wouldn't be very effective, and why trade something that's already ineffective for someone else that's on the same par.

 

I somewhat agree, but the only worrying issue is I'm banning 10+ people a day and that's just 1 mod. No one ever asks about having a DNT applied, new users don't know about the pardon system little known the DNT system. I'd like to push something that encourages people to think about their actions and join the community again, because as of right now we want to expand Sythe and make it more cleaner and noobie friendly.

 

Instead of banning people straight up after a successful scam report, you could try proposing repayment plans between the scammer and the victim. If the scammer refuses, then go ahead with the ban.If the scammer and the victim agree to the proposed repayment plan, give the scammer a DNT until repayment is complete. If the scammer accepts the payment plan but doesn't show any signs/proof of repayment, ban him. That is my take to this concept you have suggested.

 

The reason you're banning 10+ people a day is because the site is full of toxic retards coming here to make a quick buck. This will not prevent that in any way. This will not make them think about their actions. Applying a DNT rank instead of banning them will not teach them basic human decency, it will just tell them that and everyone else that because they scammed under x amount they shouldn't be punished, which isn't correct. Nobody ever asks about having a DNT applied because if they had any interest in sticking around the website or gave two fucks about anyone else or how they were effecting people, they wouldn't be stealing from others in the first place; plain and simple. The pardon system is no secret, there's a reason you don't see someone scam and attempt to pardon the next day, it's because they don't give two shits. Saying this will clean up the website is untrue, in fact it will do the opposite. If they scam someone and want to come back after x amount of time has passed that has been deemed sufficient punishment for what they've done, haven't committed additional offenses and show genuine remorse and have fixed what they've done or shown intent to, either pardon them or if the staff feel they aren't safe to be allowed back into the market yet put them in DNT. People who scam someone surely wouldn't be pardoned the next day and sure as fuck should not be considered for DNT or allowed to remain in the community the SAME day regardless of amount. If you want to raise awareness the staff can write up guidelines on how long retard scammer A stays banned for committing offense B. I'm sure something like that could be automated to appear on the ban screen/in ban reasons or even pinned somewhere and posted in disputes.
Example:
Scams below $50 will result in a minimum of 6 months ban time
Additional scams will result in an additional 6 months, more if the amount if considerably larger
Additional malicious offenses (framing/fake reports, attempted scams, blackhat, revealing personal information and so on) will also add an additional 6 months or longer if the severity of the offense warrants such (i.e. posting someone's facebook would obviously be less than posting a dox, attempting to create a fake report to get someone banned would be less than creating a fake report against a hacking victim in order to extort money, and so on)
Scams $50-100 will result in a year long ban
Scams $100-500 will be 2 years
Scams $500-1000 will be 3 years
Scams north of $1000 will be 5 years and longer even though realistically we shouldn't be allowing faggots who scam that much back anyways.
Of course remorse, good behavior (not vading/committing additional offenses/flaming staff in disputes for not unbanning them), intent to pay back and so on should also weigh in on whether or not they receive DNT in the end, the amount scammer should only be a bare minimum qualifier for DNT status after x amount of time.

Quite simply put, if this ridiculous DNT shit is going to stay then at the very least everyone committing malicious offenses should face some sort of bare minimum ban. There shouldn't be any form of "oh you only got your greedy cunt hands on $49 instead of $50 you're all gucci, no ban."

 

No support, scammers should be banned and transition from being banned to DNT should not be easy, honest members should not be surrounded by shady people.

 

When giving someone's ban reason link them a thread which explains bans, pardons/disputes and the DNT system.

 

No support. DNT should be for people who have high debts and have already paid an amount off, who are not able to pay it all back at once. The DNT rank helps to get the money back to rightful owners, as they'll be more likely to pay it back with access to the forum. Offering someone a DNT for scamming under 50$ would have no point, as if the person actually wanted to pay it back because he had remorse he would've paid it back as it's a really small amount. DNT is not something for everyone, but only for the ones with high debt who are on track with payments and whom we want to support in this process of paying back tons.

 

To be honest, if a new user enters here and scams an amount between 5-50$ and has no idea about the pardon system, he only joined Sythe.org to scam a small amount and leave again. If a user doesn't know about the pardon system he has not participated at all in the community or been on the website for longer then a week. If a user scams before even finding out about the pardoning system, I'm quite sure we don't want them back.

Sorry for double post.

 

I'd say perhaps auto DNT for users who scammed that amount x amount of time ago and come back trying to get unbanned if they are unsuccessful in pardoning provided they have repaid/shown intent to and have not committed additional malicious offenses.

I do not support sending scammers directly into DNT so that they can continue being part of the community when they've literally justscammed. Richard himself said DNT isn't a punishment and said that the bans are intended to be punishment until they are placed into DNT. What this would say is essentially there is no real punishment for scamming as long as it's below a certain amount and I can't possibly support that. Not to mention as said above it's not like they scammed $50- because it's all they wanted, they scammed $50- because it's all they could get their hands on. They're just as toxic as someone who scams $51+.




qoute from above sums it up

 

I have to agree with the tiny bit of what I read from @Yousuckv2. We need to ban scammers for at least a time before we let them back as DNT. This should be a long and thought out process that gets a lot of community input and shouldn't just changed by the staff without a lot of community input.

 

No support, would make scamming the right thing to do for many people. And even if 50$ is nothing, it is a lot to some of the victims.

 

I agree with this. Think DNT should be only for people who have seemingly turned a new leaf in the staffs eyes, or clearly have made a mistake in the past and have spent time banned and suffered for it.